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P0441 Incorrect Purge Flow on 2014 Dodge Gran Caravan SE

posted May 15, 2016 12:56:02 by ChristopherCote
This van is has been modified to be a wheelchair accessible taxi, so many components have been shifted and relocated. Since its the only taxi of its kind in our little city, its tough scheduling time to have it in to be serviced, especially to diagnose issues. Finally got it in for a block of a few hours yesterday. Just recently purchased coverage for this vehicle on Mitchell DIY's site, in order to get some good wiring diagrams etc. Have to say wiring diagrams of course are great (don't print quite as nicely as when had prodemand but still ok)but when it comes to finding out repair information or part locations..this site is not so great. I can see the big differences in it and the prodemand site, maybe why its called DIY is that they might figure that all that extra time it takes you to find info you are looking for is no big deal since you are just working on your own car and under no time constraint.
I have Auto Enginuity laptop scanner for our little cab repair shop (just maintain cab fleet, don't do regular shop work)and couldn't find any actuation to turn purge solenoid on and off to verify its function. Finally found a circuit description of the evap system and had hard time understanding it, for its written by engineers to be understood by engineers kinda pressures etc..but I did glean out of it that the ESIM switch is supposed to be pulled closed to seal system while engine is off. Located the ESIM, which is on the vent canister housing (vent canister had been relocated from atop the fuel tank to along the side, and found that the air intake filter and hose which is supposed to be installed on the intake of the ESIM is missing. Looks like it never made the relocation trip. I'm thinking this allowed contaminants directly into the ESIM switch and caused its failure to close.
I ran the ESIM functional test with the scanner, but not really sure what all that accomplished, but I did note on the screen during test that the ESIM switch never closed, which I think its supposed to.
Come Monday will be contacting the dealer for a replacement fresh air filter and hose assembly as well as replace the vent canister. If anybody has any other suggestions for me to try or how to verify the purge solenoid is working properly when I can't command it, please let me know. Both wires go to PCM, maybe I did verify sort of by touching my test light which was connected to B+ to the t pinned control wire..the solenoid clicked.
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11 replies
cheryl hartkorn said May 15, 2016 13:51:11
simple test find the purge valve unplug electrical connector find the vapor line that does not go to the intake goes to the canister side. unhook that put vacuum gauge on the port start engine should see no vacuum reading. if you do replace.
ChristopherCote said May 15, 2016 14:00:12
Should I leave the purge electrical connector off during this, or reconnect to see if computer is opening it when it shouldn't?
cheryl hartkorn said May 15, 2016 14:06:22
leave it off during the test. to check to see if its leaking.
ChristopherCote said May 15, 2016 14:08:32
Thanks Cheryl for the tip, when I get it in to replace the canister and such will do that test.
tony redolfi said May 15, 2016 14:56:20
I cant believe auto enginuity does not have such a common actuation.

last week I was talking to one of the guys over there about actuations, (thinking about getting a unit) anyway to make this short he said I needed to have the enhanced package to do any actuations. after going over the data sheet for (gm) actuations it listed pretty much everything the snapon units can do.

are you running the enhanced dodge?

here is the link,, says it does those tests

[Last edited May 15, 2016 15:01:44]
ChristopherCote said May 15, 2016 15:10:21
To be totally honest Tony, it may do the test, for I have been pleased with the functionality of AE, for it does by far as much as we need in our shop. Yes, we have the domestic enhanced package. The biggest hurdle I find whenever I hook up the scanner to the Dodge products, is the naming of all the different PIDS etc are for the most part confusing, compared to GM's. Dodge comes up with so many acronyms for their PIDS as well (at least on AE)that I can't figure out what it is.
Also, the PID lists while I'm mentioning them, Dodge's are listed alphabetically in a drop down list, which would be fine, but when you get to the last of the list, it starts over again at A, with a whole new slew of PIDS in alpha order etc. This repeats about 3 or 4 times, making it super annoying and difficult to find a PID, this on top of the PID acronyms.
The support fellas at AE are first rate, unfortunately the manual or guide is not all that helpful in guiding you through getting the most usefulness from the scanner without doing a lot of playing around, which usually never have that time! So its learn on the fly and that's where the frustration level increases.
Tyler said May 15, 2016 17:23:01
I can't recall, is there a fuel tank pressure sensor on this design? I'd be suspicious of a sensor that isn't correctly reading pressure/vacuum changes, and falsely reporting that as a lack of purge flow.
ChristopherCote said May 15, 2016 18:11:40
Yep..had FTP located up on the vent tube on fill neck of The voltages on it checked out by the flow chart.
Tyler said May 16, 2016 00:21:04
Yep..had FTP located up on the vent tube on fill neck of The voltages on it checked out by the flow chart.

Ah cool. I was thinking about a Chevy Traverse (or GMC Acadia? I don't remember) I saw a couple days ago with a purge valve code. The valve wasn't sealing (as Cheryl described), so the tank was going into vacuum with the valve disconnected electrically. Scan data captures are at work, of course...

Having the FTP sensor is a good thing IMO, as it opens up different testing methods.
ChristopherCote said Jun 06, 2016 11:05:22
Update: This Caravan has been modified to fit a wheelchair ramp in the rear hatch, therefore the fuel vapour canister had been relocated. Well, the air filter that is supposed to attach to the end of the canister was not put back on during this change up and has since allowed dirt and crud to get into the switch (can't recall its name at the moment)that is mounted at the rear of the vent canister, causing it to malfunction. Without that switch closing and opening the computer had no way to monitor the vacuum or lack of it in the evap system, thus throwing the evap code. Replaced the vent canister and air filter (and finding a suitable place to mount it) and codes have not come back since. Safe to say its a fix! Thanks for the replies guys!
Tyler said Jun 07, 2016 00:40:01
Great to hear, sir!

I *guarantee* there's no article about vehicles like this one on Identifix, lol.
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